June 20, 2007

Good Thread

Arresting post and thread concerning massive immgration of Hispanics and racism and/or anti-Catholicism. A few snippets:

Point: Give me a break. [Ann Coulter's article] is not anti-Catholic. I am a very conservative Catholic and do not want this country destroyed culturally and finanacially by allowing an estimated 20 million illegals to now become citizens. Wake up this is about globalization and forming a one world government...I care about people, but we can't help them by letting them all come to the U.S. At some point they have to help themselves and take control of their own country. Open your eyes people this is being planned out by globalist. They are doing this in every westernized country. - commenter
Counterpoint: As for the "global strategies" towards world government, I am aware of those arguments - indeed, some of the foundations for this historical approach are laid out in my book "Designed to Fail: Catholic Education in America." We already have a world government that is essentially similar to the union of states created by the Articles of Confederation in our own American history. I'm not a fan of world government, but it's a creation of man, so it isn't going to last very long. In that sense, I'm not too concerned about it. - Steve Kellmeyer

Point: Could the democratic ideal have emerged out of - let's face it - what is essentially an autocratic and hierarchical system? The idea of the priesthood of the individual believer in protestant thought fits in with a democratic worldview much more than a Catholic obedience to the church hierarchy. I would never go so far as to claim that Catholics cannot live and participate in a democratic system, but I'm not so sure that Catholocism could have produced our system of government. - commenter

Counterpoints: What no one takes into account when considering Catholic Faith and how it relates to democracy is the principle of subsidiarity.

The Catholic Church in America has always been heretical, thus its failure to acknowledge subsidiarity, and its emphasis instead on clericalism.

Catholic subsidiarity is perfectly in accord with democratic principles. Catholics in the US don't know this because they've never gotten a straight catechesis in the Faith. - Steve Kellmeyer
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"The idea of the priesthood of the individual believer in protestant thought fits in with a democratic worldview much more than a Catholic obedience to the church hierarchy." Which is precisely why any nation built upon that principle is doomed to the same fate as Protestantism itself - endless division and disintegration. - another commenter
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"Could the democratic ideal have emerged out of - let's face it - what is essentially an autocratic and hierarchical system?"

You wouldn't be referring to Protestant England, would you? England in the 1500s and 1600s was about autocratic and hierarchical as you can get, and yet the U.S. "democratic ideal" traces back precisely to that culture. So it seems to me that if an unhealthy Protestant culture could produce what many think of as the democratic ideal, then an unhealthy Catholic culture should be able to do the same.

If you'd like to see some good examples of Catholic advocacy of "the democratic ideal," you probably could do worse than to read ...some of St. Robert Bellarmine's writings on political theory. - Jordan Potter


Historical "What if?": WW I would undoubtedly have been much shorter with a decent negotiated truce and therefore no WW II. We were pushed into that conflict by Britain for no particularly good reason. - Steve Kellmeyer

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